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Paypal Trouble - Phase 1 extended

Submitted by Sebastian on Mon, 01/04/2016 - 16:37

Paypal recently informed us that our company account has been frozen and after some failed attempts to contact them they explained that our phased payments system processed through Paypal is violating their terms of service. Apparently Paypal forbids any kind of pre-selling activity when payment and delivery of goods are more than 20 days apart. Also they imposed a funding reserve on our account effectively preventing us from actually buying image sensors and Microzeds with the Phase 1 payment as "security" reserve. Paypal claims this is required since pre-selling imposes a big risk on their liability as payment provider. This is especially interesting since indiegogo uses Paypal exclusively for all their crowd funding campaigns and therefore was also our payment provider for receiving the funds from our campaign - we have to say that everything worked flawlessly and we never had any problems with Paypal until today. Pretty much every single crowd funding campaign pre-sells goods on indiegogo (we actively decided against it and funded the development of the AXIOM Beta instead but we are still an exception) but for Paypal that does not seem to matter in detail - the 20 days rule between campaign end and delivery of goods is especially entertaining for crowd funding campaigns. We can only wonder.



This image comes to mind


Paypal Refunds & Alternatives

We are very sorry for the inconvenience this causes for the few backers who paid Phase 1 through Paypal recently. We are forced to refund your transfers and ask you to use alternative payment methods. We are now investigating Stripe for processing credit card payments and so far had a thoroughly positive experience with transferwise which we are already suggesting to use in our webshop for bank transfers from outside the EU. If you know any other option that could be a good fit for us, let us know!


Please note that this does not affect donations to the apertus° association in any way, it only affects Phase 1 payments to the apertus° company for the AXIOM Beta.

Phase 1 extended

As we understand it is not the best time to ask for payments before Christmas and at the end of the year Phase 1 will stay open until at least the end of January. If you are a crowd funding supporter / voucher holder please make your Phase 1 payments soon. New voucher holders who did not participate in the crowd funding campaign but still want to acquire the AXIOM Beta hardware and who joined the preorder notification list will be invited to acquire a voucher and pay Phase 1 soon.


Project: 
AXIOM Beta

23 Comments

9 years ago
Brad Walter

How about this? I head it

  • Reply

How about this? I head it works in most cases for credit card payments http://tinyurl.com/pwdm6hz

I assume you'll be in touch once you setup an alternative credit card payment system?

9 years ago
Sebastian

Thanks for the tip :)

  • Reply

Thanks for the tip :)

We will notify those backers affected as soon as we have an alternative - please check if transferwise is not an option currently.

9 years ago
Kurt Fillmore

That sucks. Until Paypal

  • Reply

That sucks. Until Paypal returns the money; I may not be able to forward the Phase 1 Payment. Drat!

9 years ago
Sebastian

I hope they will respond soon

  • Reply

I hope they will respond soon, otherwise we will round up the gang and pay them a visit: http://www.the-college-reporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/240807-wa... :P

9 years ago
Anonymous

Some people at 32C3

  • Reply

Some people at 32C3 recommended using bitcoins and this https://bitwa.la/
If anyone wants to give it a try and provide feedback how it worked it might become an option for those owning bitcoins.

9 years ago
davidak

0,5% fee is really good. but

  • Reply

0,5% fee is really good. but only for Euro which you can pay without fees via wire transfer (SEPA).
the others currencys cost 0,5% + $15 or $20 fee, what is expensive i think. (only in BETA)

i will try this service when i have to pay something next.

also, Stripe can accept Bitcoin. i already payed multiple times through Stripe with Bitcoin :)
https://stripe.com/bitcoin

9 years ago
Sebastian

Our stripe plugin in the

  • Reply

Our stripe plugin in the webshop seems to be credit card only it seems...

9 years ago
davidak

This wouldn't happen with

  • Reply

This wouldn't happen with Bitcoin ;)

(people must learn it the hard way. thanks for this example i can tell in the future.)

9 years ago
Kurt Fillmore

Just a note: I e-mailed

  • Reply

Just a note: I e-mailed Paypal directly, asking about payments to Oscar Spierenburg for the Axiom Beta Phase 1. If those funds have been held up, I requested a refund. 24 hours later and the refund is in my Paypal account. It will take another 3 to 5 days to transfer the funds back into my bank, but I'll pursue alternate methods of making the Phase 1 payment.

I have the suspicion that if I had NOT e-mailed Paypal it could have been a much longer wait.

9 years ago
Sebastian

Maybe because we pushed

  • Reply

Maybe because we pushed Paypal from all fronts at the same time they gave up in the end :)
Paypal released the reserve and we issued all refunds yesterday.

9 years ago
Aux

2nd on : 'This wouldn't

  • Reply

2nd on : 'This wouldn't happen with Bitcoin ;)' !

9 years ago
Andrej Belic

Had good experience with

  • Reply

Had good experience with skrill.com, former moneybookers, please check regarding transfer costs

9 years ago
Sebastian

Thanks for the tip. Fees are

  • Reply

Thanks for the tip. Fees are quite OK: https://www.skrill.com/en/fees/

9 years ago
Fred

Maybe Crowd Supply would be a

  • Reply

Maybe Crowd Supply would be a good option for you?

9 years ago
Sebastian

Good idea, we will consider

  • Reply

Good idea, we will consider it once we star retail sales.

9 years ago
Anthony May

I received this email from

  • Reply

I received this email from PayPal today, relating to my USA PayPal account and a Class Action lawsuit regarding "improperly handled disputed transactions on PayPal accounts and improperly placed holds and reserves on accounts or closed or suspended accounts" and "You are a member of the Settlement Class if you had an active PayPal account between April 19, 2006 and Nov. 5, 2015. Certain Settlement Class Members who had a hold or reserve placed on their account and/or who had their account closed or suspended by PayPal are eligible to receive a monetary payment upon submission of a valid claim form".
Thought you guys might be interested.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2691691/PayPalUS%20Class%20Action%20...

9 years ago
Sebastian

Thanks, we will look into it.

  • Reply

Thanks, we will look into it.

9 years ago
Kurt Fillmore

So - how many Phase 1

  • Reply

So - how many Phase 1 Payments did you end up collecting?

9 years ago
Sebastian

We are still waiting for the

  • Reply

We are still waiting for the last payments to arrive (takes a few bank days) and once that is all done will report back.

9 years ago
Samuli Torssonen

I had completely forgotten

  • Reply

I had completely forgotten about this. Maybe time to remind people that NOW IS THE LAST MOMENT....To get the most people onboard. Give us your best pitch! :)

9 years ago
Marius

Anyone interested in an Axiom

  • Reply

Anyone interested in an Axiom Beta voucher?
Contribution Amount: 350€
Let me know at: mgrunca[at]gmail.com

9 years ago
Eric Z

Selling my Axiom Beta voucher

  • Reply

Selling my Axiom Beta voucher if anyone is interested

email me at pagodacreate[@]gmail.com

9 years ago
Krishna Bala

Hi,

  • Reply

Hi,

I have decided against investing in Axiom beta now due to the delay in production. However, since I have invested €350 I was wondering if I could sell my voucher. Please let me know

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